Minion: The Creep Minion

Suggest improvements to existing titans, minion, or create a new one!

Moderator: Development

Do you like this? Do you want this?

I like it, but its not for ID1.
0
No votes
I like it, it should be implemented.
0
No votes
I do not like it, but its necessary.
0
No votes
I do not like it, and I hate to see this come.
2
100%
Needs some rethought, but otherwise good (Please State)
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No votes
 
Total votes: 2

HunkofSteel
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Minion: The Creep Minion

Post by HunkofSteel »

WTF IS THIS?!?!?!?


Its a suggestion for several minions. The purpose of all these minion, is to of course support Titan. Minions are all part of the snowballing effect. However, they are also an absolutely MUST HAVE in Titan's arsenal of weapons.

With this said, I believe that our current minions are flawed. The idea that Titan have minions are not flawed, but the minions themselves are. Basing the minions of the Titan was WC3ID (If I remember correctly), and they could ONLY have the Titan's mini. There wasn't a choice.

In my opinion, Minis should NOT be a mini Titan, but a Titan supporter. What we have currently is thousands of little Titans running around. This makes things insanly difficult for builders in terms of snowball, yet ridiculously hard for Titan without them.

Titan gameplay is centered on Titan, not minions and Titans. This is what this suggestion is all about.

Each minion will play a different role. Levels will be gained in the same way as it is now, EXCEPT that Titan gets 100% exp that minis gain. Minions will NOT be able to get damage upgrade, damage speed upgrade, battlespeed (buff still affects), and healing ward. Should the mini die, all of its upgrades would immediatly go to the Titan.

Note: no abilities stack unless they are said to. And this suggestion was made in mind that our current minis do NOT exist.



Mini #1: The Hunter Minion


Description
Spoiler: show
This minion is centered around helping the Titan hunt. Alone, it is not a good hunter. His attacks ignore armor.


Stats
Spoiler: show
Health 1500+750per level.
Regen: 75 + 10hp/s per level.
Energy: 0, he doesn't use energy at all.
MS: 4.5
Attack: 50
Attack Speed: 1

Abilities
    Amplify Damage --- Amplifies damage on a single targetted unit. Lasts 20 seconds. Cooldown of 10 seconds. Amplified damage units will be revealed to Titan unless it has invisibility, whereas the vision, but not the damage multiplier. Casting range of 20.
      Level 1-- Increases damage by 10%
      Level 2-- 20%
      Level 3-- 30%
    Psionic Time Leash --- Places a hex on single enemy target that causes it to jump back to where the unit was when the spell was casted after x seconds. Cooldown of 30 seconds.
      Level 1 --- Casting range of 4. Jumps after 1 second.
      Level 2 --- Casting range of 6. Jumps after 2 second.
      Level 3 --- Casting range of 8. Jumps after 3.
    Mind Grip --- Grips the target enemy and all enemies around the target with an arcane leash, drastically slowing their movement speed. Any damage done on the minion breaks this leash. Cooldown of 45 seconds.
      Level 1 --- Slows 0.1 per second. Range of 5.
      Level 2 ---Slows 0.2 per second. Range of 5.
      Level 3 --- Slows 0.25 per second. Range of 6.
    Blink --- Blinks the minion. After 3 seconds, the minion gets back into the position where it was casted.
      Level 1--- Range of 3. Cooldown of 20 seconds.
      Level 2 --- Range of 5. Cooldown of 15 seconds.
      Level 3 --- Range of 6. Cooldown of 10 seconds.

    Cloak of Deceit -- Passive -- The mini is not shown on the minimap. Automatically gained.

    Minion ultimate --- Anything enemy unit in a 5 radius unit has its MS and AS slowed by 50%. However, their damage is increased by 25%.

@GEusers, is it possible to have two different coodldowns? I want a global skill cooldown of 3 seconds, than they resume to the cooldown state they were in before the 3 seconds cooldown.






Mini #2: The solo Minion


Description
Spoiler: show
This minion is centered around helping being a solo. It does not need the help of Titan, but is hard to keep alive. This minion is focused on being micro-intensive, thus needing constant attention. Any Titan that punishes and gets this minion needs to have good multi to keep it effective. This is the only mini that is not reliant on the Titan. Kind of a jack-of-all-trades minion, but unless you are using him alone, he sucks bad.


Stats
Spoiler: show
Health 1500+600per level.
Regen: 100 + 10hp/s per level.
Energy: 1000+100 per level.
Energy Regen: 100 + 10 per level.
MS: 4.0
Attack: 50
Attack Speed: 1


Abilities
    Unstable Boom --- His nuke. Upon first activation, he charges up his nuke. Upon second activation, he fires his nuke on an radius of 3 (Aoe of 6). If not fired for 7 seconds, the nuke backfires and damages the mini, as well as stunning it for 2 seconds. The longer he charges his nuke, the more damage it would do.
      Level 1 --- Takes 5 seconds to charge up. Minimum damage of 50. Maximum damage of 100.
      Level 2 --- Takes 4 seconds to charge. Minimum damage of 75. Maximum damage of 125.
      Level 3 --- Takes 3 seconds to charge. Minimum damage of 100. Maximum damaage of 150.

    Power Overload --- Increases damage and gives damage reduction. Stackable. Mana cost: 50 Cooldown of 3 seconds.
      Level 1 --- Increases damage by 5. Each stack lasts 10 seconds. 1% DR.
      Level 2 --- Increases damage by 10. Each stack lasts 10 seconds. 2% DR.
      Level 3 --- Increases damage by 10. Stacks now do not last individually, but reset the timing upon each additional stack. 3% DR. Stacks last 10 seconds.

    Emergency Protocol --- Grants the minion a temporary shield. Shield lasts 10 seconds, or the maximum damage it can absorb is reached. Cooldown of 1 minute.
      Level 1 --- Absorbs 300 damage.
      Level 2 --- Absorbs 400 damage.
      Level 3 --- Absorbs 600 damage.

    Minion Greed --- Passive--- The minion converts the anything it kills into gold. You get 10 more exp for every extra thing you killed in the last 15 seconds. The bonus exp from here will NOT transfer to Titan.
      Level 1 --- 1 extra gold. 10 extra exp.
      Level 2 --- 1 extra gold. 15 extra exp.
      Level 3 --- 2 extra gold. 15 extra exp.

    Minion ultimate --- Tether --- Minion can link itself to an allied unit and gives bonuses. Bonuses are DR and damage from Power Overload, as well as the energy regen and health regen from the minion. Upon activating Emergency protocol, the linked unit also gains the temporary shield.





Mini #3: The Sieger Minion


Description
Spoiler: show
This minion is centered around helping seiging.


Stats
Spoiler: show
Health 1500+750per level.
Regen: 100 + 10hp/s per level.
Energy: 1000+100 per level.
Energy Regen: 150 + 10 per level.
MS: 4.0
Attack: 50
Attack Speed: 1


Abilities:
    Regeneration -- Passive --As long as the mini is out of combat, he regenerates his life and energy at an increased rate
      Level 1--- Regenerates 1% of his life. Energy regen rate is increased by 30.
      Level 2 --- Regenerates 1% of his life. Energy regen is increased by 50.
      Level 3 --- Regenerates 2% of his life. Energy regen is now 2% of his total energy.

    Sacrificial Gain --- Transfers its life and energy to a single target. Melee casting range. Instant cast. Cooldown of 15 seconds. Energy cost: 200. Minion CANNOT die from using this skill. His health would just go to 1.
      Level 1--- Transfers 200 HP, 200 energy.
      Level 2--- Transfers 400 hp, 200 energy.
      Level 3 --- Transfers 5oo HP, 300 energy.

    Pain Share --- Active --- Creates a link between target unit and the minion. Any damage the target unit takes would have its damage transferred to mini. The same is said of the opposite. The link breaks when the unit moves too far away from it. Mini can die from this. so can targetted unit.
      Level 1 --- 10% of damage transferred to mini. 4 breaking range.
      Level 2 --- 17% of damage transferred to mini. 5 breaking range.
      Level 3 --- 25% of damage to mini. 6 breaking range.
      Spoiler: show
      OP damage reduction. So lets put a twist into it.

    Infectious Blast --- Nuke --- Fires off a non-targetteed nuke in 6 range in front of the mini. Any unit hit will take damage, as well as be infected. Buildings can be infected. Infected buildings and units can infect anything that comes in melee range. Any individual infection lasts x seconds. When the infection wears off, the unit takes 20 damage. Disinfected units can be infected again. Infected units and buildings will have AS slowed.
      Level 1 --- Infection lasts 2 seconds. AS slow by 1%. Initial damage is 50.
      Level 2 --- Infection lasts 4 seconds. AS slowed by 4%. Initial damage is 70.
      Level 3 --- Infection lasts 7 seconds. AS slowed by 7%. Initial damage is 100.

ResourceSalvage --- Ultimate --- Passive -- For everything killed by the minion, he gains a permanent 100 hp, as well as 10 damage and a 5% increase in AS. When this is skilled, the minion's attack ignore armor, as well as gets a *2 damage mutiplier when he has 0 stacks.[/list]




Mini #4: The Support Minion



Description
Spoiler: show
This minion is centered around pure support on Titan.


Stats
Spoiler: show
Health 1500+600per level.
Regen: 100 + 10hp/s per level.
Energy: 2000+100 per level.
Energy Regen: 150 + 10 per level.
MS: 4.0
Attack: 50
Attack Speed: 1


Abilities:
    Magic refill --- Restores energy on a single unit. Level 3 allows for AoE energy restore.
      Level 1: 400 energy
      Level 2: 450 energy
      Level 3: 500 energy in an AoE of 3.

    Psi-Vision --- Scans the target area, but no scan signs show.
      Level 1: 200 mana cost. 1 minute cooldown. Area of 4 shown.
      Level 2: 100 mana. 45 seconds cooldown. Area of 8 shown.
      Level 3: 0 mana. 30 seconds. Area of 10 shown.

    Warp Gate --- Active --- Creates a warp hole in two selected locations. Warp holes last 5 seconds, and take time to contruct. Anything that moves into the warp hole would be transported to the other end. Anything that has been transported in the last 10 seconds cannot be transported. Global range. Warp holes are 3x4 in size. Thats right, you can't really spam them in a base unless it is underpopulated.
      Level 1: Takes 10 seconds to contruct. Cooldown of 90 seconds.
      Level 2: Takes 7 seconds to contruct. Cooldown of 60 seconds.
      Level 3: Takes 5 seconds to contruct. Cooldown of 30 seconds.

    Hallucinate -- Creates a hallucination of the target unit. Casting range of 6. Cooldown of 1 minute. Hallus can damage units based on the targetted unit's damage. Also takes extra damage.
      Level 1: Hallucination lasts 30 seconds. 50% damage on hallucination. 200% extra damage.
      Level 2: Hallucination lasts 40 seconds. 30% damage on hallu. 100% extra damage.
      Level 3: Hallucination lasts 50 seconds. 25% damage on hallu. Takes 0% extra damage.
      Spoiler: show
      The one skill that switches roles as it levels

    I LUV TO BUFF -- Ultimate -- Provides global passive buff. 2% DR, 0.5 extra MS, and +50 hp regen. Upon activation, the timescale of all allied units are increased by 200%.
    [spoiler]Why so OP? Because this mini takes a looong time to get to 12. With that in mind, his 12 must be worth it to get. Most likely, a player can only get his 12 after 2-3 bonus gold at the fastest. Thus the power of this ultimate is meant to match that time. Now look at it, its not really that OP.
Last edited by HunkofSteel on Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:23 am, edited 3 times in total.
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WeareLegion
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Re: Minion: The Creep Minion

Post by WeareLegion »

Some builders have 45 base armour. The hunter minion cannot do much.

What if the Hunter minion gets bonus damage to units and the sieger gets bonus damage to structures? I really shouldn't be on right now, trying to do an assignment *cough* Three *cough* but I can offer minimal feedback now.
HunkofSteel
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Re: Minion: The Creep Minion

Post by HunkofSteel »

Reserved for additional minis.
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HunkofSteel
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Re: Minion: The Creep Minion

Post by HunkofSteel »

WeareLegion wrote:Some builders have 45 base armour. The hunter minion cannot do much.

What if the Hunter minion gets bonus damage to units and the sieger gets bonus damage to structures? I really shouldn't be on right now, trying to do an assignment *cough* Three *cough* but I can offer minimal feedback now.


The mindset that the mini is able to do what the Titan is able to do is what I am trying to eliminate. I have no idea whether the damage to different units is possible without tons of linking. Although I'll put in that the mini's attack ignore armor.
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WeareLegion
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Re: Minion: The Creep Minion

Post by WeareLegion »

Camping would be removed outright...

We would need several minions for several purposes.

Attrition minion - Has a nuke that does 220 damage to workers at level 3.
Movement - Offers a faster travel system, be it buffs or Nydus worms
And so forth...
Tehr
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Re: Minion: The Creep Minion

Post by Tehr »

I have to disagree with the entire concept. You say that it's the Minions themselves that are flawed, but not the idea of Minions in general. This, in my opinion, is false, in that Minions provide not only an additional scan, but allow the Titan to effectively be in two places at once. While the damage itself is low on these Minions, the fact remains that you STILL have to detonate your wood base. In that regard, it's simply the Minions' presence that is powerful, and that leads to snowballing.

With that aside, as it's a major point of contention (although I'm pretty sure most people agree with that stance), here's my feedback on this specific idea:

  1. Hunter Minion:
    • Blink
      • Pretty useless, as it only lasts for 3 seconds, which is slightly more than 2 real-time seconds. Not only does that mean you can only attack thrice (if you spawn on TOP of something), it also means that you have to go through all of the setup and potentially get into a dangerous situation. All it can really do is scare a Builder
    • Mind Grip
      • How long does it last? Also, 0.25 slow is incredibly powerful when chasing, and when combined with the meta I'll be addressing for the next two abilities, it's pretty ridiculously strong.
    • Psionic Time Leash
      • Free kill. Nuff said. It's BETTER than Immortal lift in that this one also means that the Builder is VERY likely to blow their Escape Ability cooldown with this. It's a unique idea, and I really like the concept, don't get me wrong, but it's ridiculously OP.
    • Amplify Damage
        So I like that it gives vision of the target, which is handy if you want to know exactly where the Builder is in a base 100% of the time (for chain nuking, whatever). But a major problem I have is that it's 30% increased damage to the Titan with 200% uptime, and absolutely no drawbacks. At least with the Ice Lord ability (which is worse than this one), you lose large chunks of health every second.
    • Ultimate
        Pretty ridiculously powerful, but not necessarily overpowered. Perhaps more fitting for a Titan instead of a Minion. I mean shit, why do Minions even NEED Ultimates?
  2. Solo Minion
    • Greed
        Oh my Jesus. Nuke 10 workers, get 20 Gold. While it's SORT OF countered by the fact that it only works for the Minion, it's still pretty powerful. I could see this as a 3-Soul item, and I would buy it just for that.
    • Emergency Protocol
        Basic heal with a novel design. I see nothing wrong with it.
    • Power Overload
      • 150 DPS is comparable to most Titans, and this guy can reach it at level 2. He also takes 30% less damage. Pretty powerful, although I dislike that it's something that requires constant clicking to maintain.
    • Unstable Boom
        I want something almost identical to this for the Immortal Titan/Minion, only without the drawbacks. Perhaps changed a little bit, but otherwise I like the design.
    • Ultimate
        So now the TITAN has a base 30% damage reduction, gets extra health regen, a free heal, and 100 extra damage. Pretty overpowered, but not more so than the first... But they're both still too OP.
  3. Sieger Minion
    • Infectious Blast
        Too powerful at attrition in that it damages buildings. The AS reduction isn't too bad, and it rewards skilled micro, but isn't REQUIRED. I don't mind that part.
    • Pain Share
      • Pretty sure this is impossible to do (any kind of damage share). But even if it IS possible, it's also overpowered. With one of each Minion, you only take 52.5% normal damage, have 30% additional damage + 100, and other boons (free heals, regen, etc). Holy shit, that's OP
    • Sacrifial Gain
      • Another free Titan heal. This one is melee, which I like, so it's actually worse than Ultralisk minions. ENORMOUS energy cost though, so this is probably not a practical skill.
    • Regeneration
      • Eh, not too overpowered, per se. 50 seconds for a full heal isn't too bad, and it's about average when using Ward on cooldown. I would prefer this to be a global passive for all Titans instead.
    • Ultimate
        No. Just... Just no. Ridiculously overpowered, although I like that it rewards attrition. This is pretty ridiculous, and this Minion can literally deal THOUSANDS of damage per second after long enough. Especially since he has an attached nuke, this will snowball hardcore after just one successful worker nuke.
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HunkofSteel
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Re: Minion: The Creep Minion

Post by HunkofSteel »

Tehr wrote:I have to disagree with the entire concept. You say that it's the Minions themselves that are flawed, but not the idea of Minions in general. This, in my opinion, is false, in that Minions provide not only an additional scan, but allow the Titan to effectively be in two places at once. While the damage itself is low on these Minions, the fact remains that you STILL have to detonate your wood base. In that regard, it's simply the Minions' presence that is powerful, and that leads to snowballing.

And having minis that can kill builders running around helps too. By a lot. My idea here eliminates the powerful mini idea. Everyone can have a mini, but they are not powerful. You CAN still use scan, and pressure bases to detonate. However, killing stuff is a major problem. Unless you are in det-ready base, which you have to first go through the walls, you can't get a single thing! The minis presence is an acceptable snowball, but not minis just plain steaming their way through to anything and everything. You have been in enough games where minis DOMINATED the match. Why should this happen? Minis should support Titan, not be the main players themselves.

With that aside, as it's a major point of contention (although I'm pretty sure most people agree with that stance), here's my feedback on this specific idea:

  1. Hunter Minion:
    • Blink
      • Pretty useless, as it only lasts for 3 seconds, which is slightly more than 2 real-time seconds. Not only does that mean you can only attack thrice (if you spawn on TOP of something), it also means that you have to go through all of the setup and potentially get into a dangerous situation. All it can really do is scare a Builder

        Or get just right into range to use a spell.
    • Mind Grip
      • How long does it last? Also, 0.25 slow is incredibly powerful when chasing, and when combined with the meta I'll be addressing for the next two abilities, it's pretty ridiculously strong.

        It lasts until 8 range. However, I think I forgot to mention that the minion cannot do anything during this channel. And I also forgot to add that any escape ability used cancels this :l
    • Psionic Time Leash
      • Free kill. Nuff said. It's BETTER than Immortal lift in that this one also means that the Builder is VERY likely to blow their Escape Ability cooldown with this. It's a unique idea, and I really like the concept, don't get me wrong, but it's ridiculously OP.

        Could have sworn I nerfed the range. Its supposed to be clost to melee range. That way, its not as OP.
    • Amplify Damage
        So I like that it gives vision of the target, which is handy if you want to know exactly where the Builder is in a base 100% of the time (for chain nuking, whatever). But a major problem I have is that it's 30% increased damage to the Titan with 200% uptime, and absolutely no drawbacks. At least with the Ice Lord ability (which is worse than this one), you lose large chunks of health every second.
      Early game tool. Titan does more damage. 150 *.3 = 45. Meaning 195 damage. Being a hunting minion, and the fack that it does only 50 damage, I do not see a problem with this. Also, global cooldown, so multi-casting on one unit is not possible.
    • Ultimate
        Pretty ridiculously powerful, but not necessarily overpowered. Perhaps more fitting for a Titan instead of a Minion. I mean shit, why do Minions even NEED Ultimates?
  2. Solo Minion
    • Greed
        Oh my Jesus. Nuke 10 workers, get 20 Gold. While it's SORT OF countered by the fact that it only works for the Minion, it's still pretty powerful. I could see this as a 3-Soul item, and I would buy it just for that.
      True. I guess I need to think of a nerf for this...
    • Emergency Protocol
        Basic heal with a novel design. I see nothing wrong with it.
    • Power Overload
      • 150 DPS is comparable to most Titans, and this guy can reach it at level 2. He also takes 30% less damage. Pretty powerful, although I dislike that it's something that requires constant clicking to maintain.
    • Unstable Boom
        I want something almost identical to this for the Immortal Titan/Minion, only without the drawbacks. Perhaps changed a little bit, but otherwise I like the design.
    • Ultimate
        So now the TITAN has a base 30% damage reduction, gets extra health regen, a free heal, and 100 extra damage. Pretty overpowered, but not more so than the first... But they're both still too OP.
      Again neglecting the fact that minion have a hard time reaching 12. Have you ever considered how shitty this minion is without spamming? Look at his health gain and energy gain, they are shit compared to the other minions. So yeah, I think it is pretty justified that ultimates can speed up attrition by a LOT.
  3. Sieger Minion
    • Infectious Blast
        Too powerful at attrition in that it damages buildings. The AS reduction isn't too bad, and it rewards skilled micro, but isn't REQUIRED. I don't mind that part.
      Ooops. Not supposed to damage buildings, only infect them. And ANY kind of heal counters this. Seriously, teamwork.
    • Pain Share
      • Pretty sure this is impossible to do (any kind of damage share). But even if it IS possible, it's also overpowered. With one of each Minion, you only take 52.5% normal damage, have 30% additional damage + 100, and other boons (free heals, regen, etc). Holy shit, that's OP
      What? PAin share only shares the damage between minion and target. And its not stackable. If you read the top of the page, it says clearly all skills are not stackable, unless stated otherwise.
    • Sacrifial Gain
      • Another free Titan heal. This one is melee, which I like, so it's actually worse than Ultralisk minions. ENORMOUS energy cost though, so this is probably not a practical skill.
      200 is not impratical, considering he has regeneration.
    • Regeneration
      • Eh, not too overpowered, per se. 50 seconds for a full heal isn't too bad, and it's about average when using Ward on cooldown. I would prefer this to be a global passive for all Titans instead.
    • Ultimate
        No. Just... Just no. Ridiculously overpowered, although I like that it rewards attrition. This is pretty ridiculous, and this Minion can literally deal THOUSANDS of damage per second after long enough. Especially since he has an attached nuke, this will snowball hardcore after just one successful worker nuke.
      Again, forgetting how hard it is to snowball him in the first place.


THere is one problem with your thinking right now. And that is each mini will be played alone. Yes, they have all overpowered skills when it comes to ultimates and skilling. But have you ever considered how do they get the experience? 50 damage per secon coupled with natural armor makes things nigh impossible for them alone to kill. Which is why all the ultimates are though of after around 2-3rd bonus gold. And please format your wall of text well, I find it hard to reply.
Last edited by HunkofSteel on Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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WeareLegion
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Re: Minion: The Creep Minion

Post by WeareLegion »

The problems I find with minions.

Scans - Gives Titan a massive boost in map control and killing a builder basically pays for a scan.
Damage - The base damage coupled with the bonuses are way too high. This allows Titans to camp with them and easily kill builders.
Nuke Damage - Their nuke damage is very high. An Immortal and a Firebat Minion can easily kill you with nukes alone. They can also easily force most support out of lanes unless a KT or Reaper Medics are nearby.
Health - Really high, especially if it is an Immortal. It allows the Titan to send 1 or 2 in to tank a lot of damage while avoiding most of it himself. This can be countered by focus fire but armies do not have enough time to kill if it is recalled.
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Re: Minion: The Creep Minion

Post by HunkofSteel »

Please read the whole thing properly before jumping in. And get rid of the idea off the minios we have now. These are totally different things, all of them ability based. Without Titan, minion have 0 chance of winning. With Titan, Titan can win. ONLY Titan can truly attrition. The rest helps Titan do that, without directly attritinoning. The only minion that can snowball hard is the seiger with his ultimate. And that is only if builder wants to fuck around and not bother with upgrading worker health.

All minis CANNOT get damage upgrade, or AS upgrade. Or any item. Meaningt he solo Titan can be powerful early game, but falls out EASILY late game.
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HunkofSteel
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Re: Minion: The Creep Minion

Post by HunkofSteel »

WeareLegion wrote:The problems I find with minions.

Scans - Gives Titan a massive boost in map control and killing a builder basically pays for a scan.
Damage - The base damage coupled with the bonuses are way too high. This allows Titans to camp with them and easily kill builders.
Nuke Damage - Their nuke damage is very high. An Immortal and a Firebat Minion can easily kill you with nukes alone. They can also easily force most support out of lanes unless a KT or Reaper Medics are nearby.
Health - Really high, especially if it is an Immortal. It allows the Titan to send 1 or 2 in to tank a lot of damage while avoiding most of it himself. This can be countered by focus fire but armies do not have enough time to kill if it is recalled.


The only thing currently that makes Titan different than minions is that minions have no push priority, and that Titans have more levels and are tankier. In all other aspects, mini are just as powerful as Titan. Which is the entire problem.
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