SC2 Island Defense

Balancing

New TH with Army Bases

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Re: New TH with Army Bases

Postby ckx » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:04 am

TankMysterSC2 wrote:I have yet to see an army base work in a regular game.

Have you ever seen an army of medics plus one pred and one marauder? works super well.
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Re: New TH with Army Bases

Postby TankMysterSC2 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:45 am

ckx wrote:
TankMysterSC2 wrote:I have yet to see an army base work in a regular game.

Have you ever seen an army of medics plus one pred and one marauder? works super well.

Who's the reaper and who's the titan? Pro vs noob 9 times out of 10.
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Re: New TH with Army Bases

Postby quantifier » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:05 pm

9Zakarious6 wrote:
fdas wrote:I don't think the old titan hunters were ever viable in a wall base alone. Armies would have to be the main source of damage.


It always depended on how united the builder lobby was. Back when Radon still played, whenever he got titan, most of the lobby would all rush to a base, build titan hunters, destroy any wood bases, and wait. He would at most be lvl 3-4 against 4+ titan hunters and any armies that would slowly be building up. This would happen in like 4-5 minutes of game start at the latest.
Lobbies won't be able to be united enough to pull something like that off again though.


I've also pulled off titan hunter bases for a short period of time with 1-2 titan hunters before. It's against new under-leveled titans though. In short, it has a lot to do with titan level/feed, and the amount of minions. If the titan has one immortal minion, with some decent levels, even 3 titan hunters weren't enough. 4 titan hunters might survive, but probably would eventually fall to a good titan with enough feed.

So old titan hunter bases were definitely viable, even against decently fed titans, to a certain definition of viable.

TankMysterSC2 wrote:
ckx wrote:
TankMysterSC2 wrote:I have yet to see an army base work in a regular game.

Have you ever seen an army of medics plus one pred and one marauder? works super well.

Who's the reaper and who's the titan? Pro vs noob 9 times out of 10.


I agree with both points. There is the matter of whether the titan is good and whether the builder is good. However, there are definitely good armies out there. And there should be good armies. You need good armies to hunt down titans.

The essence of the discussion is whether the new proposed titan hunters would make army bases too strong. It seems like there are already "viable" (for a certain definition of viable; as Tank said, they tend to not work out against good titans except with high degree of coordination) army bases. Since a lot of the new abilities have to do with chasing, I think any imbalances resulting from the new titan hunters can be resolved by changing damage values.
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Re: New TH with Army Bases

Postby fdas » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:31 pm

Hellion fire ability makes titan take extra damage. Just run along your walls and he will be affected as he comes in. Lurker can lock in a titan with the bone spikes, etc
syipinc wrote:So it was, that his name was suitably tarnished by malicious rumour and low browed innuendo, that Remy Marcel had no other choice than to enter French politics...
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Re: New TH with Army Bases

Postby quantifier » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:42 pm

fdas wrote:Hellion fire ability makes titan take extra damage. Just run along your walls and he will be affected as he comes in. Lurker can lock in a titan with the bone spikes, etc


These are indeed abilities that could help in an army base. In fact, all, if not most, of abilities can help an army base. It's something that we have to watch out for. We'll try out best to not make it too out of line. Thus, thank you very much for bringing it up; now we know to watch out for it. The cumulative effect is something that is hard to judge, of course, and we'll probably have to do some balancing after these titan hunters are out.
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Re: New TH with Army Bases

Postby fdas » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:02 pm

Don't forget that in addition to titan hunters there can also be a legitimate army inside the base.
syipinc wrote:So it was, that his name was suitably tarnished by malicious rumour and low browed innuendo, that Remy Marcel had no other choice than to enter French politics...
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Re: New TH with Army Bases

Postby quantifier » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:30 pm

fdas wrote:Don't forget that in addition to titan hunters there can also be a legitimate army inside the base.


Of course, we do have to consider that possibility too.
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Re: New TH with Army Bases

Postby TankMysterSC2 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:19 am

Another thing that *could* be added in balancing THs is giving them a slight debuff when near walls. They already get set to level 1 stats and no abilities when near a turret, but this makes army bases stronger. If we applied a 5(ish)% debuff to all titan hunter abilities for each wall they are near, that could help balance them. 5% would have minimal impact outside of a base since a random wall or two to block paths won't have a significant impact on the damage of abilities, but a titan in an army base with 6-10 walls would suddenly be much less powerful.
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Re: New TH with Army Bases

Postby fdas » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:47 am

TankMysterSC2 wrote:Another thing that *could* be added in balancing THs is giving them a slight debuff when near walls. They already get set to level 1 stats and no abilities when near a turret, but this makes army bases stronger. If we applied a 5(ish)% debuff to all titan hunter abilities for each wall they are near, that could help balance them. 5% would have minimal impact outside of a base since a random wall or two to block paths won't have a significant impact on the damage of abilities, but a titan in an army base with 6-10 walls would suddenly be much less powerful.


What about a base like bot left where there is only 1 lane. You can just have 3 walls up and when the titan comes just build them as he is killing his way into your base.
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Re: New TH with Army Bases

Postby TankMysterSC2 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:53 am

fdas wrote:
TankMysterSC2 wrote:Another thing that *could* be added in balancing THs is giving them a slight debuff when near walls. They already get set to level 1 stats and no abilities when near a turret, but this makes army bases stronger. If we applied a 5(ish)% debuff to all titan hunter abilities for each wall they are near, that could help balance them. 5% would have minimal impact outside of a base since a random wall or two to block paths won't have a significant impact on the damage of abilities, but a titan in an army base with 6-10 walls would suddenly be much less powerful.


What about a base like bot left where there is only 1 lane. You can just have 3 walls up and when the titan comes just build them as he is killing his way into your base.

Let's not worry about base-specific issues; the map is being reverted to the old one that everyone loves when titan hunters get their rework implemented.
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